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Post by samuraigaiden on May 4, 2018 22:38:45 GMT -5
Sorry, NB, I was going to say this in the Cities discussion thread, but I think it may merit it's own discussion. And I don't think we can entirely have the city stat discussion without also discussing this info. So...actions would be, as things stand now: -Subterfuge- ARSON (Int = damage to target city) SPY (Int = Spy information) STEAL (Int = Steal resources from target) RIOT (Int = Lowers target Safety) RUMOR (Int = Lowers...?) We may want to get rid of this if we're not going to add in NPC loyalty stats of some kind. -Development- DEVELOP AGRICULTURE (Std = Food tax gains every 3 months) DEVELOP COMMERCE (Std = Gold tax gains every 3 months) DEVELOP INFRASTRUCTURE (Std = Building points - BP then convert into new buildings) DEVELOP TECHNOLOGY (Int = Technology Points - TP then convert into new technology options) PATROL (Lea = Increase Safety - Safety stops subterfuge actions) FORTIFY (Str = Increase Fortification level - Fortification is to withstand siege damage) -Personnel- SEARCH (Cha = Find and recruit NPC) RECRUIT (Cha = Recruit NPC) DRAFT (Cha = Conscript Troops) -Administrative- BUILD = Convert TP into buildings CRAFT ARMS = Convert gold into arms INVADE = Convert human death into new territory  LEVY = Convert Safety into Gold and Food MOVE = Pack up officers and supplies and send them into adjacent territory |
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Post by samuraigaiden on May 4, 2018 23:09:18 GMT -5
So that's essentially what we have. Here are my suggestions...
-Subterfuge-
Arson (Int equals chance of success; Str equals amount of damage)
Steal (Int equals success chance; Lea equals amount stolen)
Rumor (Int equals success chance; Cha equals how much Safety is reduced)
Get rid of Riot; Riots will automatically occur when Safety reaches a certain level.
-Development-
I personally kind of like Safety equaling the strength of your defenses, so I'm not super big on the Fortify action. What if we did this, instead:
D. Ag (Same)
D. Com (Same)
D. Infrastructure (Int = BP)
D. Technology (Str+Int = TP)*
Patrol (Same)
-BP & TP-
So basically your BP is assorted building supplies gathered - trees cut down and converted into lumber, stone cut and brought in from the quarry, etc. So what if BP reduces the gold cost of buildings, but you could still build stuff for straight gold. Your converting manual labor into monetary discount. For instance if a building costs 1,000 BP then you can raise BP to 1,000 and build it that turn. Or you can use the 80 BP you've got and spend 200 gold to have your local merchants supply the rest of the supplies and still get it this month. That gives players on the losing end of the spectrum a fighting chance when someone starts digging deeply into their territory and takes their arms production out.
I know you were talking about technologies and the like, but what if your TP was your ability to produce armaments? Same way as BP worked. Developing TP is kind of like having poles, raw metal, feathers, and leather sitting around then you convert them into spears, bows, etc.?
-Personnel-
Recruit (Same)
Search (What if instead of just straight Charisma = Success it was this: Int = Chance of finding officer, Cha = chance of recruiting officer?)
Draft (What if we changed it to this: Cha affects how much safety you lose from drafting, but Leadership is how many troops you gather up? Like the current Cha based formula for reducing safety loss and then the current Cha formula, but using Lea instead for how many troops you gain.)
-Administrative-
Build (*See Above)
Craft Arms (*See Above)
Invade (Same)
Move (Same)
Levy (...oh boy, here we go with another idea...)
-Levy vs. Taxes-
So here's something to consider...
Tax collection is a major theme of a lot of old warfare and stories. Robin Hood was all about tax collection, the reality of the Anti-Dong Zhuo coalition is that there never was a battle at Hu Lao Guan - the Coalition just got off all the roads to Luo Yang and starved the capital of taxes from 2/3 of the country, Minamoto no Raikou was sent east because the eastern provinces weren't sending tax tributes to the Emperor as often as they were expected to.
So what if we got rid of taxes? What if, instead, you had to perform Levy to get your taxes? Give locations an automatic +3 (or +5 or +10 or whatever number) to Safety to every turn that you don't tax them.
The current rules for Levy are as follows:
So with that formula in mind your Agriculture and Commerce stats would still be what gives you tax income, but you could sacrifice income if you get hit with Rumor/Riot a few times and don't want to move extra generals into the location to build Safety back up. Or if you've recently been hit with a siege battle and had your Safety stat decimated - you can withhold taxation for a turn or two in that location while your generals Patrol to get Safety back up (once again, presuming we don't use the Fortify stat, because I don't like it, haha).
But at the same time, you could perform Levy multiple times in a single turn, like any other action, and basically Dong Zhuo the hell out of your people for a quick sum of cash and/or food.
-Additions-
I also think we should have a Buy/Sell Food action available. This is my suggestion for it:
In other words...if I have two characters, one with 90 Charm and one with 40 Charm and I send them to trade supplies I'll get these results...[Normally would be -25 Gold]
Charmin (90) Buys 100 Food (Price = 1 Gold/4.9 Food): -21 Gold; +100 Food
Uglin (40) Buys 100 Food (Price = 1 Gold/4.4 Food): -23 Gold; +100 Food
And with bigger purchases we get these numbers...[Normally would be -2500 Gold]
Charmin (90) Buys 10,000 Food (Price = 1 Gold/4.9 Food): -2,041 Gold; +10,000 Food
Uglin (40) Buys 10,000 Food (Price = 1 Gold/4.4 Food): -2,273 Gold; +10,000 Food
Or something along those lines.
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Post by Nature Boy on May 5, 2018 9:42:05 GMT -5
You don't have to apologize, I was gonna put something like this anyways. Before I get to a full response, I'm just gonna go ahead and put down what my rough list of actions were for easier comparison. This does not include the possible addition of Fortifications.
KINGDOM ACTIONS
ARSON - Attempt to set fire to a portion of an enemy city. Requires the Arson Skill.
(Int-((.5 x int) - (.5 * Safety)))/10 + Roll (Check of 15)
BUILD - Construct a building in the city. COSTS OF BUILDINGS TO BE DETERMINED.
BUY ARMS - But arms from the local farmers. Multiple types of arms can be purchased in a single action. Arms cost 2 more gold per unit. Siege weapons can not be purchased this way.
BUY FOOD - Buy food from the local farmers. Gold:Food Ratio, 1:4
CRAFT ARMS - Craft weapons to supply your armies.
DRAFT - Draft troops to compose your army.
40 * Cha/10 = Troops Gained. Troops Gained/50 = Safety Loss
DEVELOP AGRICULTURE - Increase the Agriculture stat of the city.
1.75 * Stwd/10 = Stat gain (2.5 * Swtd/10 with Farmer Skill)
DEVELOP COMMERCE - Increase the Commerce stat of the city.
1.75 * Stwd/10 = Stat gain (2.5 * Swtd/10 with Merchant Skill)
DEVELOP INFRASTRUCTURE - Increase the Infrastructure stat of the city.
1.75 * Int/10 = Stat Gain (2.5 * Int/10 with Engineer Skill)
INVADE - Attack a neighboring territory
Max of 10 units to start, max 5 reinforcements per turn.
LEVY - Collect food and gold from the people at a loss to the city’s safety.
TO BE REWORKED.
MOVE - Transport troops, arms, or officers an adjacent territory.
PATROL - Increase the Safety stat of the city.
Lead/10 * .75 = Stat gain (Lead/10 * 1.25 with Leadership Skill)
RECRUIT - Attempt to recruit a free NPC.
Cha/15 + Roll (Check of 16 needed)
RESEARCH TECHNOLOGY - Increase the Technology stat of the city.
1.75 * Int/10 = Stat Gain. (2.5 * Int/10 with Inventor Skill)
RIOT - Start a riot in an enemy city, causing overall damage to that city. Requires the Riot Skill.
(((.5 * Int) + (.5 * Cha))/10) - ((.5 * Stwd) + (.5 * Safety))/10) + roll (Check than 16)
RUMOR - Spread rumors in an enemy city lowering the city's safety and causing soldiers and possibly officers to desert. Requires the Rumor Skill.
(((.5 * Int) + (.5 * Cha))/10) - ((.5 * Stwd) + (.5 * Safety))/10) + roll (Check than 14)
SCOUT - Scout out potential battlefields.
Int/10 + Roll (Check of 13)
SEARCH - Search for an NPC in the city to try and recruit.
Cha/20 + Roll (Check of 12 to find) (Check of 16 to recruit)
SPY - Spy on an enemy city, gaining information on said city. Requires the Spy Skill.
(Int/10 - Safety/10) + Roll + Relevant Skills (Check of 15)
STEAL - Steal resources from an enemy city, increasing some of your city's stats while lowering the enemy's.
(Int/10 - Safety/10) + Roll + Relevant Skills (Check than 14)
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Post by genocide on May 6, 2018 7:48:37 GMT -5
@ NatureBoy
I don't think Steal should increase your own settlement's stats, seeing as how you're not taking their means of production from them and transferring it to your own place of residence. It should just "Requisition" some of the material resources stored and transfer them to your own stockpiles. Likewise, unless you're directly affecting the means of production, it shouldn't affect the city stats of your enemies either, if it did, its sort of redundant with Arson, while also not requiring a separate skill in order to perform the action. At that point, Arson becomes ridiculously over-priced for what it does.
@samurai
I like this idea, but maybe we could add a building that gives the option of doing this, like a Rice Exchange or something, or is that too many hoops to jump through?
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Post by samuraigaiden on May 9, 2018 13:48:45 GMT -5
@ NatureBoy I don't think Steal should increase your own settlement's stats, seeing as how you're not taking their means of production from them and transferring it to your own place of residence. It should just "Requisition" some of the material resources stored and transfer them to your own stockpiles. Likewise, unless you're directly affecting the means of production, it shouldn't affect the city stats of your enemies either, if it did, its sort of redundant with Arson, while also not requiring a separate skill in order to perform the action. At that point, Arson becomes ridiculously over-priced for what it does. Hmm, here's an idea...split Steal into two new actions: Espionage (Subterfuge action): This is basically steal, but without the malicious intent behind it. Send an agent into another location to spy on their industrial capabilities - they return with either Ag, Comm, Infrastructure, or Building points. No damage to the enemy location, but you come away with higher stats for your own location. Kind of like - "Okay, I watched how their farmers rigged up an irrigation system and I think I can show our own farmers how to do it, now, too." Raid (Military Action): A single-turn invasion of sorts; no chance of extended status. Basically you send up to 5 officers into neighboring territory to steal supplies and damage the enemy stats. Kind of like how plunder works this version, but a smaller-scale affair. Have PoI (Points of Interest) on the map that the invaders are trying to get to. Things like 'Storehouse', 'Tax Office', 'Quarry', 'Armory', etc. No troops; just officers on a raid. Officers within the defending location are chosen randomly by roll, based on how high the safety rating is (100/5 = Amount of Defenders) So if you've got 80 Safety, then 4 of your local officers can defend; but if you've got the castle upgrade and you're at 125 you can put 6 against their up-to 5. If two officers meet in the raiding field, instant duel. We could even preference to officers who use the Patrol action that turn - anyone on Patrol are automatically part of the defenders, leftover spots are randomized. Submit tactics. Or if we wanted to basically just have a smaller limit cap on troops and run it like a battle. Instead of (Lead*35 + 100) make the unit cap be (Cap = Lead) and restrict it to only Swordsmen on both sides. No food used in a raid because it's basically occurring over the course of a single night. Chance to cut down some enemy numbers, maybe get a prisoner or two, and get some gold, food, and arms or such; at the risk of your own troops and officers, of course. I like this idea, but maybe we could add a building that gives the option of doing this, like a Rice Exchange or something, or is that too many hoops to jump through? Yeah, I think building a whole building just for it seems like more than you need. But perhaps instead of making an officer's Charisma be how much the price is changed, we could simplify things that an officer can only trade so much based on their stats. Maybe the price is always the same - or even have the price fluctuate month-to-month or season-to-season. And trading gold/food would be a new Str-based option. Essentially how much food the person can physically handle at the market. Officer can trade (Str*30) food maximum per action, per turn. So someone with 45 Str could buy 1,350 food (for 338 gold at 1:4) or could sell 1350 food (for 338 gold at 1:4) per action. Someone with 90 Str could buy or sell 2,700 Food per action (for 675 Gold at 1:4) per action. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 20:49:00 GMT -5
ok soooo....... just throwing this out there. regarding troops. in history 90% if not more, of any feudal or dark age army was peasants. there was a core group of troops that were your standing army or honor guard (huskarls, men at arms, samurai ect.). usually in times of war you drafted from your population. these people were poorly armed, in japanse terms they were ashigarus. simple farmers. as well the lord or Daimyo would order his lesser lords to bring men to the battle host. so, in terms of mechanic what im trying to say is, instead of drafting troops. x amount of troops stay in army. we can do an alternative and more deeper idea. for example, im a lord. lord farkwad the 3erd. im being invaded by my not so kind neighbor, tod... fuck tod. i have only my small group of elite troops. because the ashigarus or peasants are farming and such. well screw that! i draft them. i draft say a few hundred ashigarus. this effects my city or providence stats. my commerce, loyalty or happiness and agriculture take hits. but that's fine because now i can fend off the attack. after the battle i release my poor peasants back to their horrible lives. obviously some are dead and others wish they were dead. so the influx of ashigarus back inot my providence brings my stats up again, but not to where they were... because people died and we are all sadden by it. in short, every feudal system ran on one main source. peasants. they did the farming, they did the trading, they did the majority of the killing. as such i think it would be cool to represent that in a way. it might be a but to implement it but i think it could be done well. this system would have also worked for 1066 as well.
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