v2 Skills

Nature Boy
Administrator

Posts: 1,370

v2 Skills Apr 30, 2018 16:51:14 GMT -5

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Post by Nature Boy on Apr 30, 2018 16:51:14 GMT -5

Rough Draft for the skills for the next version. Most are the same, a few have been changed and some skills have been added. Everything is subject to change. Any questions, comments or suggestions are welcome.

ADMINISTRATOR (2; Stwd) - Increases the amount of gold and food collected when using the levy command. Increasing the Food Gain from Stwd/10 * 125 to Stwd/10 * 150. And Increasing Gold gain from Swtd/10 * 40 to Swtd/10 * 60.

ADMIRAL (3; Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice roll modifier when commanding naval units.

AID (1; Int)- Allows for the use of the Aid tactic in battle.

AMBUSH (2; Lead/Int)- Allows for the use of the Ambush tactic in battle.

ARSON (1; Int) - Allows the use of the Arson KT action.

AXEMAN (3; Lead/Str)- Adds a +1 dice roll modifier when commanding an axe unit.

BLACKSMITH (2; Str) - Allows you to craft weapons and armor, and boost output when using the Craft Arms PT action.

BLITZ (3; Lead/Str) - Allows for the use of the Blitz tactic in battle.

CAVALRY GENERAL (3; Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice roll modifier when commanding a cavalry unit.

CHARGE (2; Lead) - Allows for the use of the Charge tactic in battle.

CONFUSE (1; Int) - Allows for the use of the Confuse tactic in battle.

COUNTER ATTACK (2; No Stat) - When commanding a ranged unit, you will automatically counter attack when attacked by another ranged unit.

DOUBLE ATTACK (3; Lead/Str) - Allows for the use of the Double Attack tactic in battle.

DUELIST (2; Str) - When in a duel, treat your Strength as if it was 15 points higher for Initiative, AP, and HP.

ENGINEER (1; Stwd) - Increases the amount of Infrastructure gained when using the Develop Infrastructure Kingdom Turn action.

ESCAPE ARTIST (2; No Stat) - Lowers the chances of being captured in battle or in failed Kingdom Turn actions.

FARMER (1; Stwd) - Increases the amount of Agricutlure gained when using the Develop Agriculture Kingdom Turn action. Increasing the muliplier from 1.75x to 2.5x.

INSPIRE (2; Cha) - Allows for the use of the Battle Cry tactic in battle.

INVENTOR (1; Int) - Increases the amount of Technology gained when using the Research Technology Kingdom Turn Action.

IRON WILLED (2; No Stat) - Opponents using battle tactics against you receive a -1 modifier

JEER (2; Cha) - Allows for the use of the Jeer tactic in battle.

KEEN MIND (2; No Stat) - Gain a +1 modifier when using battle tactics.

LEADER (2; No Stat) - Increases the amount of troops able to command in battle by 150. Increases the amount of Safety gained when using the Patrol Kingdom Turn Action.

LOGISTICS (2; No Stat) - Increases the movement of a unit in battle by 1 and reduces the food eaten each turn by 1/2.

MARKSMAN* (3; Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice modifier when commanding a ranged unit.

MEDIC (3; Int) - Allows for the use of the Heal tactic in battle.

MERCHANT (1; Stwd) - Increases the amount of Commerce gained when using the Develop Commerce Kingdom Turn action. Increasing the muliplier from 1.75x to 2.5x.

RALLY (2; Cha) - Allows for the use of the Rally tactic in battle.

RAID (2; Lead/Int) - Allows for the use of the Raid tactic in battle.

RECRUITER (2; Cha) - Increases the chances of finding and recruiting NPC’s, giving an extra +3 to your recruitment and search rolls. Increases the amount of troops gained when using the Draft Kingdom Turn Action or Recruit Volunteers Personal Turn Action.

RETURN (2; Lead/Str) - Adds a +2 Dice Roll modifier to Counter Attacks.

RIOT (3; Lead/Int/Cha) - Allows the use of the Riot tactic in battle and the Riot KT Action.

RUMOR (2; Int/Cha) - Allows the use of the Rumor KT Action.

SCHOLAR (2; Int/Stwd) - Allows the crafting of books and manuals.

SEAMANSHIP (1; No Stat) - Increases movement when using Naval Units by 2 spaces.

SIEGE EXPERT* (3;Lead/Str)- Adds a +1 dice modifier when commanding a siege unit.

SPEARMAN (3;Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice modifier when commanding a spear unit.

SPY (1; Int) - Allows the use of the Spy KT action.

STEALTH (1; No Stat)- Increases the chance of success when doing espionage actions (Riot, Rumor, Spy, etc), giving a +3 dice modifier to all rolls.

STUDY (2; No Stat) - Increases the amount of XP gained when using the TRAIN PT action.

TACTICIAN (1; No Stat) - Begin battle with an extra 30 AP.

TAILOR (2; Cha)- Allows the crafting of clothes.

TAUNT (1; Int/Cha)- Allows for the use of the Taunt tactic in battle.

TERRAIN (2; No Stat) - Ignore the negative effects caused by terrain.

THRUST (2, Lead/Str)- Allows for the use of the Thrust tactic in battle.

TRADER (2, No Stat) - Receive a 15% Discount when purchasing items from the Marketplace.

VALOR (2, No Stat) - Prevents extra damage dealt when being flanked or from troop difference.

VOLLEY (2; Lead/Str)- Allows for the use of the Volley tactic in battle.

WEAPON MASTER (2; Str) - Allows for the use of the Disarm, Headshot, Mortal Strike, and Parry tactics in a duel.

*Marksman and Seige Expert bonuses do not stack*

samuraigaiden
North Hold

Posts: 466

v2 Skills Apr 30, 2018 18:07:57 GMT -5

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Post by samuraigaiden on Apr 30, 2018 18:07:57 GMT -5

One thing I would note...

The 'class leader' skills, I think, should be 2 SP, instead of 3 SP:

ADMIRAL (3; Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice roll modifier when commanding naval units.
AXEMAN (3; Lead/Str)- Adds a +1 dice roll modifier when commanding an axe unit.
CAVALRY GENERAL (3; Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice roll modifier when commanding a cavalry unit.
MARKSMAN* (3; Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice modifier when commanding a ranged unit.
SIEGE EXPERT* (3;Lead/Str)- Adds a +1 dice modifier when commanding a siege unit.
SPEARMAN (3;Lead/Str) - Adds a +1 dice modifier when commanding a spear unit.

The exception to that rule, I think, should be marksman. However I think that marksman should still work for mounted archer units - but only when they performed a ranged attack (giving them +2 t the damage roll in exchange for taking up 5 SP; whereas a cavalry melee attack would be +1 to the damage roll in exchange for 2 SP).
Assuming they will be present in the game. Mounted archery was not particularly prevalent in some areas at some times.
Now if we are going for the Onin war period, then I think Mounted Archers should be in the game - though some other possible scenarios would be a different scenario, entirely. And Marksman not affecting Siege Weapons is fine.

Semantics:
Cavalry General should be changed to just Cavalryman and Siege Expert should be changed to Artillery.

Also, I don't like that the skills allow you to use a tactic. I think they should increase you success chances of the tactic working, but allow a commander to use any tactic they want - at a diminished chance of success. For instance it's real easy to see, right now, that your enemy will not use any special tactics in battle if they have a commander with a Lead-Str of 80-40 and the only skill they have is Charge. Too much risk of getting an ad hoc duel and getting slaughtered against your 60-90 warrior.

That's it for my battlefield observations for the moment - now onto civil applications.
I see that locations are now going to have different stats - for instance Engineer alters Infrastructure gains, rather than making buildings cheaper. So that will affect my thoughts on development actions.

RECRUITER (2; Cha) - Increases the chances of finding and recruiting NPC’s, giving an extra +3 to your recruitment and search rolls. Increases the amount of troops gained when using the Draft Kingdom Turn Action or Recruit Volunteers Personal Turn Action.

While this does make sense...being able to recruit officers more efficiently is a pretty big gain. I think with also raising the drafting amount this should turn Recruiter into a 3 SP skill.

TERRAIN (2; No Stat) - Ignore the negative effects caused by terrain.

I...don't like this skill at all. Not only because this combined with Logistics would make Cavalry almost moot.

STEALTH (1; No Stat)- Increases the chance of success when doing espionage actions (Riot, Rumor, Spy, etc), giving a +3 dice modifier to all rolls.

I think Stealth should work like Recruiter and give a solid +3 to success roll. But it should also be 2 SP, because it affects all subterfuge options.

TAILOR (2; Cha)- Allows the crafting of clothes.
SCHOLAR (2; Int/Stwd) - Allows the crafting of books and manuals.
BLACKSMITH (2; Str) - Allows you to craft weapons and armor, and boost output when using the Craft Arms PT action.

Blacksmith should be 3 SP - because it also affects Crafting Arms in the PT.
On that note - the entire crafting system needs to be revamped. Right now crafting is kind of pointless, honestly. By spending 2 SP (or in my case, 3 turns to learn the crafting skill) you basically get to spend 40 AP in lieu of 50 gold to create an item. If it was 50-75% off or something, it would be worth it...but right now there's really no reason to have a crafting skill - except Blacksmith because it has actual game benefits - very strong ones.

Also, the crafting skills are very vaguely worded. I know you laid down the rules in the question thread early on, but they should be explained better in the rules, themselves.

And that's it for now form your friendly, neighborhood game developer.

Conall de L'est, (Male, Half-Elf, 34)
90-50-20-50-90
Counter Attack, Inspire, Marksman, Recruiter, Volley

genocide
Squire

Posts: 120

v2 Skills May 1, 2018 11:24:14 GMT -5

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Post by genocide on May 1, 2018 11:24:14 GMT -5

I like Samurai's point about battle tactics, I think it should increase the effectiveness of the tactic, not enable the tactic to be used. It takes a lot of time to learn new tactics via learning the appropriate skill, so some people will not ever be ready in time for combat and forced to go into battle with an essentially under-prepared character.

Leopold Dunkelreitter
95-93*-70-60-49
Charge, Confuse, Aid, Study, Iron Willed, Raid, Leader

Nature Boy
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Posts: 1,370

v2 Skills May 1, 2018 17:46:04 GMT -5

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Post by Nature Boy on May 1, 2018 17:46:04 GMT -5

For it only being a +1, I could change it to 2 SP. And as of right now, unless more people come in and vote, we will most likely be doing the Onin War period, so the Cavalry Archers would be in the game. And I have actually been wanting a better name for those skills, so that works out pretty well

As for the tactics. That is something that could be changed. I would probably have the SP costs stay the same though, unless anyone wants to argue it?

Yes, I have a new system for building in mind that I will post, hopefully soon. And I could see that being a 3 SP, I put it as 2 since it's currently only 1 SP without the drafting bonus.

A fair point with Terrain, if others feel that same way about it, it can be removed.

Stealth already does give a +3 to the roll. But I could see bumping it's cost up.

And I was already wanting to change the crafting system to something different. I've noticed that it's practically useless (save for blacksmith) and no one has been using it.

samuraigaiden
North Hold

Posts: 466

v2 Skills May 2, 2018 8:51:04 GMT -5

Quote

Post by samuraigaiden on May 2, 2018 8:51:04 GMT -5

May 1, 2018 17:46:04 GMT -5 Nature Boy said:

As for the tactics. That is something that could be changed. I would probably have the SP costs stay the same though, unless anyone wants to argue it?

No, I think they're okay at their current cost with that change.

May 1, 2018 17:46:04 GMT -5 Nature Boy said:

Yes, I have a new system for building in mind that I will post, hopefully soon. And I could see that being a 3 SP, I put it as 2 since it's currently only 1 SP without the drafting bonus.

Yeah, Recruiter is already one of the strongest skills, in my opinion, because an extra chance at getting an NPC over someone else is an extra action each turn. Even if they're a crap NPC, that's 720 less food every season for your enemy or 155 extra gold you'll have over them (minus salary).

Also, looking forward to seeing the new system. Hopefully it's not too different from what you've got now, I liked the combination of simplicity and strategy to the turns here. Having something besides spying for people with high Intelligence and having anything for warriors to do would be nice. Right now my greatest warriors are all stuck making axes or sending food to the frontlines.

May 1, 2018 17:46:04 GMT -5 Nature Boy said:

And I was already wanting to change the crafting system to something different. I've noticed that it's practically useless (save for blacksmith) and no one has been using it.

Any ideas you're actively working on?

Conall de L'est, (Male, Half-Elf, 34)
90-50-20-50-90
Counter Attack, Inspire, Marksman, Recruiter, Volley

samuraigaiden
North Hold

Posts: 466

v2 Skills May 2, 2018 10:35:14 GMT -5

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Post by samuraigaiden on May 2, 2018 10:35:14 GMT -5

Also, double post because I've thought of it much later and it's a totally separate point from the original post. But Background Traits...

FAMILY HEIRLOOM - Start with an item +3 of any stat, or 2 items that total +3 to stats.
FOLLOWER - Start with two NPC followers.
REGIMENT - Start with 200 Troops to command.
SKILLED - Start with 3 Extra skill points.
WEALTH - Start with 150 Extra gold.
WELL EDUCATED - Start with 30 Extra stat points and boosts cap to 95.

I'll each one I want to talk about in sequence.

FOLLOWER - Start with two NPC followers.

I think this should be dropped to 1 NPC follower. This is a really nice background trait to have; that's 2 extra actions per turn for an NPC you got to design to facilitate your own needs.

REGIMENT - Start with 200 Troops to command.

I have two ideas for this.
1. Get rid of it, because it's woefully weak compared to anything else. For instance I can use Follower and create an NPC with 90 Charisma who can recruit 315 troops in the first turn's PT.

or

2. Have troops assigned to a particular person. For instance when you recruit volunteers in the PT, those are your personally loyal troops. A ruler will recruit troops in the KT for the 'clan', but PT troops and arms are 'Family' troops. This also lessens one force steamrolling another because they got the most PCs crafting and recruiting in their PTs and then just handing everything over to the ruler. The downside to this is when a player goes inactive - those troops are kind of lost in limbo and/or never replenished. Also since NPC's do not submit PTs of their own accord, we would need a system like how we do it with the stat and SP at the turn of each year for them.
I've got a few ideas if we want to go with #2.

WEALTH - Start with 150 Extra gold.
FAMILY HEIRLOOM - Start with an item +3 of any stat, or 2 items that total +3 to stats.

Wealth vs. Heirloom is Heirloom is a winner. 150 Gold can buy you a +2 item; but heirloom gives you a +3 item. And right now there's really nothing else to spend your money on except items.

Personal Thoughts

Here's something to consider, since we're talking about an Onin War setting, if we wanted to coordinate background traits to RP purposes. For instance...

TAIRA DESCENDANT - Start with 30 Extra stat points and boosts cap to 95.
MINAMOTO DESCENDANT - Start with 3 Extra skill points.
KOKUJIN DESCENDANT - Start with two NPC followers.
FUJIWARA DESCENDANT - Start with 150 Extra gold.
TACHIBANA DESCENDANT - Start with 200 Troops to command.
KUGE DESCENDANT - Start with an item +3 of any stat, or 2 items that total +3 to stats.

Or some amalgamation thereof. Just an idea.

Conall de L'est, (Male, Half-Elf, 34)
90-50-20-50-90
Counter Attack, Inspire, Marksman, Recruiter, Volley

genocide Squire Posts: 120	v2 Skills May 2, 2018 13:46:53 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by genocide on May 2, 2018 13:46:53 GMT -5 Well for Background traits, I don't think these families intermarried, especially in the case of the Taira and Minamoto, so maybe just having one back ground trait instead of two?
	Leopold Dunkelreitter 95-93*-70-60-49 Charge, Confuse, Aid, Study, Iron Willed, Raid, Leader

samuraigaiden
North Hold

Posts: 466

v2 Skills May 2, 2018 14:24:33 GMT -5

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Post by samuraigaiden on May 2, 2018 14:24:33 GMT -5

Actually they did intermarry a lot before the Gempei war. Minamoto no Tametomo, the guy who kind of made Seppuku famous, was married to a Taira woman - one of Kiyomori's cousins who ruled vast tracts of Kyushu Island.

It happened a lot less during the Gempei period when they were at war with each other. But you figure by the Sengoku period you had plenty of inter-marrying for alliance purposes. The Hojo clan vaguely claimed Hojo descent, making them a Taira branch (in theory) but Hojo Ujiyasu married Imagawa Ujichika's daughter - the Imagawa being Minamoto. Likewise Hojo and Takeda intermarriage was also done. One of Oda Nobunaga's (Taira) daughters married Takeda Katsuyori (Minamoto).
By the Sengoku period, it was more important to secure an alliance than who your family backed three-hundred years ago.

Conall de L'est, (Male, Half-Elf, 34)
90-50-20-50-90
Counter Attack, Inspire, Marksman, Recruiter, Volley

genocide Squire Posts: 120	v2 Skills May 2, 2018 14:43:46 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by genocide on May 2, 2018 14:43:46 GMT -5 I stand corrected. I did not know these different lineages.
	Leopold Dunkelreitter 95-93*-70-60-49 Charge, Confuse, Aid, Study, Iron Willed, Raid, Leader

Nature Boy
Administrator

Posts: 1,370

v2 Skills May 4, 2018 21:54:21 GMT -5

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Post by Nature Boy on May 4, 2018 21:54:21 GMT -5

Basically how it will be is you will build up Infrastructure and then use that to build instead of just straight gold. And between that and the Technology idea I have, that'll give Int based characters more to do. I'm still trying to think of something for strength based ones though. I do want a KT specific action that does use it.

I have no ideas currently for a new crafting system. It's kinda been at the bottom of the list for me.

As for Background Traits...

Follower - I could bump that down to one, or maybe allow it to be taken twice to get two?

Regiment - I was considering doing something like your second idea for that, with troops being assigned to the characters instead of them pooling in the barracks and sitting there until invasion. I didn't realize how low of a number it truly was when I first made it, and even during my initial play tests. I guess I never created a full recruiter type character during that... I would like to hear any ideas on this.

Wealth/Heirloom - This was another thing I saw on my own. I planned on bumping the amount of money for wealth up significantly. (Also I was going to add some PT actions where you have more options to buy things there).

samuraigaiden
North Hold

Posts: 466

v2 Skills May 11, 2018 8:26:36 GMT -5

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Post by samuraigaiden on May 11, 2018 8:26:36 GMT -5

May 4, 2018 21:54:21 GMT -5 Nature Boy said:

Regiment - I was considering doing something like your second idea for that, with troops being assigned to the characters instead of them pooling in the barracks and sitting there until invasion. I didn't realize how low of a number it truly was when I first made it, and even during my initial play tests. I guess I never created a full recruiter type character during that... I would like to hear any ideas on this.

Some loose suggestions on this subject.

Have troops split in two ways: Family Troops and Clan Troops.
Family Troops are the soldiers personally loyal to an officer. These are the troops the officer will take into battle - they are recruited in Personal Turns.
Clan Troops are the soldiers loyal to the ruler and his/her clan. These may be assigned to an officer for a battle, but they then become that officer's Personal Troops; Clan Troops are recruited via the conscription action in KTs.

So I think we should also limit how many troops and armaments PCs can donate to their clan. I mean, realistically you could have 5 PCs with an average stat of 80 and Blacksmith and produce 600 of any armament per turn for free right now. That saves a kingdom between 1,200 and 3,000 Gold. Do that every turn and you've got a kingdom with 3,600 to 9,000 worth of free armaments, which really only cost them 125 gold in officer salaries.
But at the same time it could be devastating to a clan to have PCs drop off the face of the game with a bunch of resources assigned to them; or for a person who is no good as a general to have a bunch of troops and armaments.
So perhaps have an action for rulers...
Forced Scutage (or some other name): Ruler takes or accepts resources from a character; must pay character equivalent fee of 50% of value or suffer loss of Safety.
Safety loss = 1 Safety for each 25 Gold in value of items taken. So if you take or accept 200 Axes from a PC you'd have to pay them 200 Gold (200 axes @ 2 gold a piece = 400 Gold, 50% is 200) or you would suffer -8 Safety.

A thought.

Conall de L'est, (Male, Half-Elf, 34)
90-50-20-50-90
Counter Attack, Inspire, Marksman, Recruiter, Volley

Nature Boy
Administrator

Posts: 1,370

v2 Skills May 11, 2018 17:20:58 GMT -5

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Post by Nature Boy on May 11, 2018 17:20:58 GMT -5

I like the way that's split. Some things I was thinking of was at that point the officers having to pay those troops, and so they would need to get more gold I'd think.

Some kind of compensation needed or suffering a penalty of some kind is a good idea I think. Another thing I was going to do was have it so Officers could not craft siege units, boats, and possibly horses during the personal turn. Cause that ends up being a lot of gold saved.

samuraigaiden
North Hold

Posts: 466

v2 Skills May 11, 2018 21:46:20 GMT -5

Quote

Post by samuraigaiden on May 11, 2018 21:46:20 GMT -5

May 11, 2018 17:20:58 GMT -5 Nature Boy said:

Another thing I was going to do was have it so Officers could not craft siege units, boats, and possibly horses during the personal turn. Cause that ends up being a lot of gold saved.

We could always just have an extra modifier in the arms crafting formula.
Instead of just straight [Str = Arms Crafted] it could be value based.
[Str = Arms Points Crafted] 1 Arms point equals 1 gold worth of crafting, basically.
So someone with 90 Str would make 90 Arms Points.
90 Arms points equals out to 45 Spears, Axes, or Bows; 22 Horses, or 18 Catapults.

Another thing to consider is this for the Arms Crafting - Splitting it into two types: Crafting and Designing (for lack of a better term). Gives different stats interests to do.

So here's the gyst:
Arms crafting like we have now (but maybe with my above suggestion) would be relegated to the Int stat, instead of the Str stat. So it would be (using the above idea)...
[Int = Arms Points Crafted] But it costs a flat fee of say...10 Gold (or whatever economy balance factor is necessary), essentially you're paying to buy materials, hire labor, rent a workshop, etc. to produce 'large' amounts of arms.

Then we have the Str based crafting, which is actually sitting there with a hammer and folding sword blades in a forge.
[Str/10 = Arms Points Crafted] But no cost, it's free aside from the AP used to do the action. It creates a lot less, but the arms are totally free to craft.

It gives players options in their PTs.

Conall de L'est, (Male, Half-Elf, 34)
90-50-20-50-90
Counter Attack, Inspire, Marksman, Recruiter, Volley

Post by Nature Boy on Apr 30, 2018 16:51:14 GMT -5

Post by samuraigaiden on Apr 30, 2018 18:07:57 GMT -5

Post by genocide on May 1, 2018 11:24:14 GMT -5

Post by Nature Boy on May 1, 2018 17:46:04 GMT -5

Post by samuraigaiden on May 2, 2018 8:51:04 GMT -5

Post by samuraigaiden on May 2, 2018 10:35:14 GMT -5

Post by genocide on May 2, 2018 13:46:53 GMT -5

Post by samuraigaiden on May 2, 2018 14:24:33 GMT -5

Post by genocide on May 2, 2018 14:43:46 GMT -5

Post by Nature Boy on May 4, 2018 21:54:21 GMT -5

Post by samuraigaiden on May 11, 2018 8:26:36 GMT -5

Post by Nature Boy on May 11, 2018 17:20:58 GMT -5

Post by samuraigaiden on May 11, 2018 21:46:20 GMT -5

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